It’s true; Ted Bundy is different from all other serial killers. It’s not that he’s more evil or callus than the rest of that diabolical lot. It’s just that when you look at him, at his appearance and demeanor, and what he’d accomplished and where he was going, he just doesn’t fit the mold of a cold-blooded killer.
But it isn’t just how he appeared on the outside that both fascinate, and yes, startles, but what he did while committing abduction and murder. For within the normal minds of those who “encounter” Ted Bundy, there is a strong desire to understand why he did what he did. And yet, like a hamster galloping on its wheel, we never seem to completely get there (after writing two books about the man, I certainly haven’t). What follows is from my book, The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History:
“And it is here, at the intersection of normal Theodore Bundy and diabolical Theodore Bundy, that the mind of the average person begins to short-circuit, for at this bizarre crossroads lies a troubling dichotomy that shouldn’t exist, but does. At first glance he seems so similar to us in so many ways, and was seemingly everything a brother, a husband, and father, or an uncle should be. But on the inside, where the real Theodore Bundy lived, he was (or, more appropriately, he became) a vessel filled with evil, and one from which poured the most vile and wicked plans ever devised by a human being. It was a nature he carefully cultivated, was sorry to say goodbye to after his final arrest, and which followed him to his grave.”
On the outside, Ted Bundy was a handsome and articulate man. He was often pleasant to be around, and he never gave any indication of anything bad smoldering within him. A college graduate and law student; a political animal who was rubbing shoulders with the influential in Seattle, he was a man that most believed was going somewhere special in life. They were right of course, but not in the way they had imagined. But all of this was the outer Theodore Bundy. The inner world of the man, however, was so dark and abysmal that it defies imagination.
The other factor sparking fascination beyond the great chasm of the outer and inner Ted Bundy, are the types of abductions and murders with which Bundy was involved, and here are several examples…
University of Washington student, Lynda Ann Healy, was attacked in her basement apartment in a Seattle rooming house she shared with other coeds. Bundy entered the dwelling in the early morning hours of February 1, 1974, walked down the basement steps where he was faced with two “rooms” that were separated only by a partition of thin plywood. We don’t know if it was on purpose or by chance, but he entered Healy’s abode and attacked her. Only feet away, another young woman was sleeping, and she later told investigators she never heard a peep during the night. Bundy, who carried Lynda up the steps and left the house by the side door, was taking a huge risk as it was a university district where college kids may be anywhere at any hour of the day or night.
Ted Bundy, feeling omnipotent, would abduct two women in one day from a crowded Lake Sammamish State Park on Sunday, July 14, 1974. His first victim, Janice Ott was led away by ruse to her death in the morning (he wouldn’t actually kill her until late that afternoon after he’s obtained his second victim), and he returned to the lake later that afternoon feeling tired and sick from a cold, to snatch Denise Naslund a little after 4:00 p.m. It was an unprecedented, jaw-dropping act and Bundy had gotten away with it.
On November 8, 1974, Bundy, having flubbed the abduction of Carol DaRonch at the Fashion Place Mall in Murray, Utah, drove to Viewmont High School in Bountiful, Utah (about a 20 minute drive) where a school play was getting ready to start, and exposed himself to fifteen hundred people as he sought a victim. And again, he would be successful and young Debra Kent would soon die.
From all outward appearance, Theodore Robert Bundy was a normal, intelligent man with a good future ahead of him. But for that dark inner world that Bundy had immersed himself in, he might have been a successful lawyer, and it’s quite possible a career in politics might have resulted in a governorship, as he once alluded to. And so, as society continues to study this very unique killer, they will be faced with the two Ted Bundy’s who committed shocking abductions and diabolical murders. And the answers they seek as to why Bundy did what he did will, despite their valiant efforts to uncover the truth, continue to elude them.
This is why we are fascinated by Ted Bundy.
Some major assumptions there, Kev. There is absolutely no evidence he killed Janice Ott after obtaining Naslund. It’s pure speculation. And actually more unlikely than having killed her before going back to get Naslund. It’s the kind of thing added to Bundy lore that makes him more ‘diabolical’. But it’s simply not something that was ever established.
I’ve read your books. You’re an accomplished writer. However, adding things into the story like ‘Bundy’s laughing in an alley before obtaining Hawkins’, the whole account of what happened when he picked up the hitchhiker in Idaho, and ignoring the very credible account of knowing Laura Aime, are ill-advised. Right there you’ve ignored a report verified by more than one witness (Aime), and added in three of your own assumptions as fact (alley laughing, a detailed account of what happened during the drive in Idaho that no one was there to see and no one will ever know the truth of, and a double murder where both victims were killed together).
Hi Carly,
A few points I think you’re missing: One: Bundy gave indications he killed the two together, and I believe the most trusted source would be Bill Hagmaier. Could Bundy be lying? Sure, but it would be wrong to not report what Bundy had given, even if it was in somewhat veiled references. Two: Duane Covey reported to the police that they (he and Georgann) heard laughing down the direction where Bundy was watching them; and Duane confirmed this to me when I spoke to him in 2007. Bundy also alluded to this in Conversations with a Killer, by Michaud and Aynesworth. Did you realize any of this? As such, it’s conclusive evidence that this in fact did take place. Three: My story of the Idaho hitchhiker follows the events told by Bundy in his confession to Idaho investigators. There is simply nothing to say beyond this. Four: Of course Bundy may have known Healy. But it’s far more likely he knew of Healy rather than knowing her. He may have even spoken to Lynda, but that does not constitute knowing her.
There absolutely NO information in my book that is based on speculation. In two places where I did speculate about Kathy Parks was later confirmed by Lorraine Fargo. And the only reason I speculated here was that there was sufficient circumstantial evidence pointing to it. I also let the reader know that these things may be, but that I had no proof for them. After the publication of The Bundy Murders, and the contact by Lorraine, I had the answers that I was very certain of during my research.
I hope this helps.
Kevin
One more thing, Carly: I was in a hurry this morning, and I thought you were talking about Healy. Okay, concerning the Aime connection: As you know, I’m aware of the report, and I speak of that report in The Trail of Ted Bundy. In the book I talk about why it didn’t make it into The Bundy Murders, but why I included the info in my second book. Now, besides it not “feeling right” to me, I’m also aware of Bundy’s confession to Florida detectives that he doesn’t hurt anyone he knows. He made this statement at a tired and weak moment where he freely admitted other incriminating statements. Bundy had asked for the recorder to be turned off (it was, but the detectives made quick notes) before he said these things, but it was entered into evidence later anyway. And I think Ted was telling the truth here. So in my view, he didn’t know Aime at all, and outside of this report, I can’t find anything else to corroborate it. Could the report be true? Sure, maybe, but I just don’t put a lot of stock in the story, as the “facts” seem a bit disjointed and odd to me.
Btw: I don’t know who Bundy killed first between the Lake Sam victims. How would I know something like that?
Hi Kevin
I know Bundy said he didn’t “hurt anyone he knows” – I personally believe this was Bundy trying to make himself look less of a monster. I don’t believe for a second Bundy really meant this – I’m not sure if you’re aware of recent research that has come to light that suggests he had interactions with Lisa Levy at her work before she died, knew of Susan Rancourt, and visited his cousin at Healy’s house, as well as possibly visiting Nancy Wilcox at her work on more than one occasion (even her mother believes this was Bundy). While these incidents don’t constitute “knowing someone”, all that’s left is suggesting that he wouldn’t murder actual friends of his. And that’s not saying much.
This information cannot be dismissed. To assume Bundy murdered only strangers is highly unlikely. Are we to assume he stalked complete strangers exclusively? It’s highly probable he developed fixations on particular individuals he actually had met and spoke to. Developed safe relationships with.
Another witness, separate from the one in Deliberate Stranger, heard Aime tell Bundy “Get the fuck outta here – I don’t wanna see you no more”. Both of these incidents are in the official record.
Bundy always tried to make himself look better – he also told Michaud the killer “had no desire to cause unnecessary prolonged pain” and “incapacitated them quickly”. I think allowing Julie Cunningham to escape only to chase her down and strangle her proves otherwise. His desire to ‘jump out and scare people’ points to a mindset that does enjoy instilling terror and fear in people, definitely prolonging their fear. His final interview was full of moments where he shifted the blame, tried to point the finger at society as the cause of his disease, and tried to come across as “giving something back to society”. To believe any statement he made that gave him the slightest bit of humanity is foolish.
He also contradicted his story about the double murder to Polly Nelson, saying “there’s nowhere I could really have done that”. The only concrete information we have on the double murder is Gerard Schaeffer’s account that he murdered Naslund in his car, after she almost kicked his windscreen out, then “got down to business in the back of the car”. This suggests Ott was long dead by then. Odds that he would risk leaving Ott bound but alive while he disappeared to get Naslund is pretty risky, even for Bundy. I’m not sure where Hagmier insinuates Bundy killed them together – I haven’t read that anywhere. The truth is we will NEVER know.
As for Parks, I didn’t disagree with you about any of the points you made there.
As for the laughing in the alley, I’m not saying that didn’t happen. Obviously it did. But it’s impossible to say that was Bundy. There was lots of activity in the area that night, parties, etc. It could’ve been a tenant a few doors down laughing. Might’ve been Bundy. Again, we’ll never know.
These moments of weakness in his final hours you think are Bundy being honest and vulnerable does not explain why he feigned memory loss when it came to Aime and Melissa Smith.
Finally, I know the hitchhiker incident you are reporting directly from Bundy’s account, but it’s written in such a detailed way like you were a fly on the wall of the car.
I think it’s best to agree to disagree here. I will be purchasing your final Bundy book.
All the best
Carls
First, Carly, let me say I like your feisty attitude lol! 🙂
A few points: The off-the-record confession that Bundy made to Dan Patchen and the others contains incriminating statements, and it is very clear to me he was shooting straight at that moment. As such, the aforementioned statement that he doesn’t hurt anyone he knows has legitimacy all over it. Of course, this doesn’t mean that he couldn’t have known of some of his victims, but I don’t think he really “knew” them. Lynda Healy, I believe, would be a good example. It also wouldn’t surprise me if I suddenly found out he headed into the Healy rooming house with the very intention of abducting HER! It’s quite possible but not provable. However, remember in The Bundy Murders that I speak of those odd phone calls coming in to the house the night after the abduction where the person was breathing into the phone but wouldn’t answer? I believe that was Bundy.
I’m still not on board with the Aime/Bundy story and I never will be. But I’m glad I mentioned it in the Trail of Ted Bundy. 🙂
I don’t think it was memory loss that kept Bundy from talking about certain victims. In some cases it was just clear he was trying to avoid talking about them. Of course, at the end, during those marathon meetings, he did sometimes get a bit confused, but that’s because he was so extremely tired.
AS to knowing Susan Rancourt: There always seems to be “connections” between people in this story, when in fact, they often mean very little. Sometimes, the connection MAY have some meaning but in most cases, not. At CWSC Bundy was merely hunting, and had been hunting for many hours when he finally ran into Susan who ultimately went all the way with him to his car (and unlike the first one that night0, Became Ted Bundy’s victim. Do I believe he saw this young lasy and said to himself: “Why, that’s Susan Rancourt!” No. I think he saw her, interacted with her, sensed he might have her, and that’s how she ended up dying by has hands that night. As to the supposed connections of Lisa levy and visiting Healy’s cousin at the house, are all speculative and are rumors that have been around fora long time. i find the Nancy Wilcox assertion (by whomever is proclaiming it), both laughable and absurd.
Yes, Bundy did like to sometimes psychologically torture his victims. Those who say otherwise do not know the case very well.
Lastly, I wouldn’t put a lot of stock with what came from Gerrard Shaffer, Bobby Lewis, or any other con who knew Bundy.
Take care, Carly, and thanks for reading my books! 🙂
Kevin
I have been devouring your books, I’ve always had a fascination with true crime and Bundy in particular. I find your work to be the best and most unbiased I’ve read. I’m an avid reader, but I also have a long commute, so I’ve been listening to them on Audible. I haven’t been able to find pdfs with the photos that are in your books to accompany the audio books. Do you not provide those?
Hi Kim…First, thanks so much for the kind words about my Bundy books! We writers love hearing from happy readers! 🙂
As to the pics for the books there is this: For The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History, McFarland (my publisher) holds the rights to the trade paper and eBook editions which contain the pictures. I have audio and entertainment rights, which includes Audible. However, I cannot reproduce the pics in the book as they’re under copyright to the publisher. However, for my next two books in the series – The Trail of Ted Bundy, and, The Bundy Secrets (both published by WildBlue Press), we have a page of photos available, and you can follow the link here: https://wildbluepress.com/bundy-photos/ I hope this helps.
Feel free to contact me with any additional questions, and I’ll get back with you ASAP.
Take care,
Kevin
Thank you so very much for the speedy response and the link.
Kim
You’re very welcome, Kim 🙂
Hi Kevin,
A few thoughts I have about Lake Sammamish which I find really curious.
1. The car which has been identifed as Ted’s doesn’t have a ski-rack on it. He insisted on moving the rack back onto Liz’s car before driving home though,. This indicates he was trying to avoid his car being identified.
2. Given the enormity of the crime and the risks he was taking, it seems to make sense he would have attempted an assault on both girls together. However, it appears he didn’t abduct Denise Naslund untill 4.40pm. I understand that Lake Sammamish is around 20 miles away from Seattle. Therefore, if he led Denise to the car at around 5pm and drove her off to an undisclosed location to join Janice Ott, how would he have managed to arrive at Liz’s house at 6pm? Bearing in mind there would have been a lot of traffic that day.
3. I understand from my research that the area the bodies of Naslund and Ott were found would have been thick with nettles and undergrowth during July. This would make it unlikely he had actually killed them there. If that is the case, how would he have transported two bodies in a cramped VW without anybody noticing?
I’d love to know your thoughts on these questions! Btw thanks for sending me your e-mail address. I still intend to compose an e-mail regarding Ted’s developing psychopathy, but have been busy the last two weeks to haven’t got around to it yet.
Looking forward to hearing back from you.
Cheers,
Martin
Hey Martin…
Well, I don’t think Bundy had the ski rack on the car that day, as someone reported that he told Ott it would “fit in the trunk”.
As to when Naslund left the park with Bundy, I think he encountered her between 4:20 and 4:30 so actually 4:35 or 4:40 is probably more accurate as to when they pulled away from the park. As to the 6:00 pm arrival time at Liz’s, I’m not so sure about that. I can’t remember, but if she stated 6pm perhaps she’s probably a bit off from that time, but perhaps not by very much. I do believe that Bundy moved very quickly once he had the two women together, and I’m sure they were both dead within 15 or 20 minutes after Naslund’s arrival (he most likely had Janice Ott restrained at an isolated location not far from where the bodies were eventually discovered). So things had been moving quickly at the end, and Bundy was very tired by this time, plus he’d made his “point”, as it were, by the double abduction and was more than ready to go home. As to heavy traffic? Perhaps not as much as you might think: When they left the park there was still a good four hours of light left, and the exodus from the park may not yet have grown steady, as it would be closer to nightfall.
Because the remains of Ott and Naslund were discovered about 4 miles (as the crow flies) from the park, I believe that’s where (or at least very near there) Bundy had kept them and then killed them. I don’t believe he killed them at a different location and placed them in his car for transport, although he could have done so fairly safely if he removed the passenger seat after killing them. He then could have laid them onto the floor and covered both with a blanket. The passenger seat he could have placed in the backseat (as he was known to do) until he dumped them. Even so, I doubt that that happened. My belief is he had secured them and killed them very close to where they were found.
Take care,
Kevin
Thanks Kevin!
That does make sense. I forgot how much Bundy would take pleasure in the entire hunt and was comparing it with his later confessions when he said he spent up to 24 hours with the victim.
Also, you might well be right about the ski rack. In the Phantom Prince, Liz mentions Ted moving the rack from his car onto hers before leaving that night, though it could have even been the other way round and she was getting it mixed up. Who knows, as it would be an easy mistake to make?
All the best,
Martin
Well, it’s true we have some unanswered questions about that day, but not many. We know Bundy admitted to Bill Hagmaier that he kept Ott alive and didn’t kill them until they were together. We know the time Denise Naslund left the park almost to the minute. And we have what I believe is an approximate time Bundy hooked up with Liz. From this we know that death came quickly to Ott and Naslund once Denise arrived at the spot Bundy had picked to detain them. And that’s pretty much the gist of July 14, 1974.
Great conversation, Martin! 🙂
Kevin please check your FB private messages. I was a witness to hours of Ted on July 14th 1974 and I can give you every detail of Denise, what she was wearing how he introduced himself to her, how she almost fell on the grass and how he used a frisbee beer and a smile. He didn’t abduct her she voluntarily choose to go with him. I spent the entire day right there. I can give the tactics. Please understand I was actually a police statement witness as was my my mother.
Hey Andy…see my response to your other post.
I love some of your very educated answers here are a few helpful tips that you may not be aware. As of 5pm Naslund had voluntarily got into Bundy’s car but they hadn’t left the park yet. They chit chatted for 20 plus minutes shared a beer and a joint. When we drove off his car was still there. Both were inside but the engine was not yet on. The photo of is bug seems fake or wrong he wasn’t parked there he was parked at the small beach and not even in the parking lot We called it stoners beach. Remember there was a huge company party at the other beach and no parking. So ya she left I believe right after we left and that was after 5pm.
As far as no traffic I am afraid that is not correct. There was massive traffic just getting out of the park. Back then there was only a yielding stop sign so you can picture how slow and difficult it was to get out of the park. It took us at least 20 minutes to get out of the park. It was Bastille day I remember but it was also a Sunday and once on the main highway yes there was just moderate traffic.
The dump site was at least 20 minutes or more away. I know I have been there. Taylor mountain road is actually a park entrance at least 6 miles of winding slow road away. It certainly isn’t close as described. Since I was right next to “Ted and his car I do believe his car had a passenger seat that day as I remember him sitting there putting on a blue sweatshirt with a hood. Yes it was 90 degrees but not all day there was a huge wind storm with dark clouds and it got temporarily cold. Yes there was a seat. He had a styrofoam cooler and I thought it odd that he said to those he gave beers to “I have a better thermos at home this I just got today for the beach.”.
My theory is his girl covered for him there is no way in hell he could have left in that park traffic traveled a windy 6 mile back road did his awful business and make it 40 miles to Seattle. Please understand that mountain road/park was just off of highway 18 which is nearly to North Bend. There is no way in hell his girlfriends story was accurate regarding the time. There was no.rack on the car but he did put a poncho style blanket on top of his bug. And nobody mentions the little canoe. I know people don’t know squat when they mention sail boat there was a canoe right next to his car and when the staff life guard asked him to move his vehical he rebutted that by telling them he was just there to load his boat and he had to wait for a friend to help him get the boat up.
Ya I was there and all day and yes I was a police interviewed witness through my mom who was also there.
Hi Andy.
I’m aware that Liz (his girlfriend) misspoke when she told investigators it was around 5pm when Bundy came over to her apartment. These things happen, and I’ve encountered them with the testimony of others as well. There’s nothing nefarious about it, and Bundy no doubt showed up at 6pm or a little later. Also, it’s absurd to assume that she “covered” for him. That just didn’t happen. Also about the logistics of the area as regards to the time factor: I too have been all over that area, and it was possible for Bundy to take Naslund to wherever he was keeping Ott, kill them, and leave their bodies where they were FOR THE TIME BEING. Why do say this? Because they may not have been killed where their remains were later found. As such, the time factor of arriving to Liz’s apartment is both plausible, and in my opinion, accurate.
Yes, Bundy may not have been parked in that area, although he was there earlier in the day. As to the canoe, I can’t speak of that, other than to say it had nothing to do with him. That you say you saw them is interesting, and I’m happy you’ve had a chance to share it here. And I have (and will) message you privately. Thanks again for the contact!
Kevin
Andy can you please email me: bundyresearch@gmail.com
Andy can you please email me: bundyresearch@gmail.com.
How did Bundy have a canoe if he had no practical means to transport it via roof racks or the like?
Hello…
Having an email address such as bundyresearch, none of what I say here should come as a surprise to you. That said, I’ll pass along a few facts nevertheless: First, Bundy never owned a canoe. His girlfriend Liz purchased a yellow raft for Ted, but he did not take that, or any other flotation piece to the lake that day. It’s clear from the testimony of witnesses, that Bundy was asking women to help him get his “sailboat” unloaded, and when the one woman went with him to where his VW was parked, there was no boat and nor trailer to place it upon. When asked about it, he said the boat was up at his “folks” place in Issaquah and she did not go with him So, whomever AB saw that day with the canoe, it couldn’t have been Ted Bundy. It was likely someone who resembled Bundy, and his picture would not even appear in newspapers for about a year and a half. Lots of shaggy-headed guys at the lake that day, and as such, a mistake in identification that long after an event is a common occurrence.
Yes I know, a June 1972 graduation gift. Yes the encounter with Janice Graham was the episodic sailboat ruse. I just thought Andy had some interesting info, in that he is correct in saying that the weather turned. What ruse Bundy had after Ott, can not be boxed in to the earlier one. I have no doubt that Andy was there that day. Kevin do you have Andy’s email, if all comments are moderated and Andy can’t see replies, thanks!
Yes, but rather than post it here I will email it to you. Give me a few minutes.
Thanks Kevin